Cover photo: (Left) J.D. Vance (Gage Skidmore – Wikimedia Commons), (Right) Governor Tim Walz (Lorie Shaull – Wikimedia Commons)
Tuesday night played host to the only scheduled Vice Presidential debate of the 2024 cycle. Senator J.D. Vance (R-OH) and Governor Tim Walz (D-MN) met for their only head-to-head matchup in Midtown Manhattan, hosted by CBS Evening News.
Vance, 40, serves as Ohio’s junior U.S. Senator, having only been elected to his first political office in 2022. Vance’s presence on the ticket is notable, not just due to his age, but also his appearance on the ticket after Trump elected not to court former Vice President Mike Pence’s (R-IN) presence on the campaign this year.
Vance is also a venture capitalist, author, and Marine Veteran. His 2016 memoir Hillbilly Elegy became a New York Times bestseller and was adapted into a film in 2020.
Walz, 60, on the other hand, has served as Governor of Minnesota since 2019. He was re-elected in 2022, but by a thinner margin than his first election. Before that, he represented the swingy MN-01 across the southern border of the state in the U.S. House. He has also served in the U.S. Army, Nebraska National Guard, and Minnesota National Guard, although the authenticity of his service claims has come into question.
Walz is also a former teacher, having graduated from Chadron State College in Nebraska in 1989. He took a one-year teaching position with WorldTeach in Guangdong, China. He had claimed that he arrived in Hong Kong just as the Beijing government staged its retaliation against protests at Tiananmen Square. However, the New York Times reported just this week that he did not travel to China until after the protests.
Walz returned to Nebraska to teach and coach. He met his wife there and moved to her home state of Minnesota, where he continued teaching until his run for Congress in 2006.
“CBS Evening News” anchor and managing editor Norah O’Donnell and “Face the Nation” moderator and Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent Margaret Brennan served as moderators. Traditional debate decorum applied: each candidate received two minutes per question, with two minutes allotted for rebuttals. Candidates were also allowed another minute for further points, with another minute available at the moderators’ discretion. Moderators also reserved the right to mute microphones to maintain decorum. No live audience was present.
Editor’s Note: For spacing concerns, not all topics discussed at the debate are summarized in this article.
The Middle East
Governor Walz received the first question regarding his support or opposition of a preemptive strike by Israel on Iran given the latter country’s vocal sponsorship of terrorism and likelihood of producing a nuclear weapon in a critically short period of time.
Walz opened by invoking the October 7 terrorist attacks levied by Hamas on Israel that recently saw several hostages executed by the terrorist group and still leaves thousands either imprisoned or dead.
“Israel’s ability to be able to defend itself is absolutely fundamental,” said Governor Walz, adding that retrieving hostages and ending the “humanitarian crisis in Gaza” are also “fundamental.” He also said that the “expansion of Israel and its proxies is an absolute, fundamental necessity for the United States to have the steady leadership there.”
Walz quickly criticized President Trump, saying that “a nearly-eighty-year-old Donald Trump talking about crowd sizes is not what we need in this moment.” He also remarked on Vance’s prior opinion on Trump, in which the Ohio Senator said Trump was “unfit for office,” mirroring this with Harris’ leadership that he called “steady.”
Vance then had the microphone, but he took a point of personal privilege to introduce himself to the public, conceding that his and his opponent’s name recognition are relatively low compared to the presidential nominees.
“I was raised in a working class family,” Vance opened, a likely reference to Vice President Harris’ oft-repeated quote of her background. My mother required food assistance for periods of her life. My grandmother required Social Security help to raise me. And she raised me in part because my own mother struggled with addiction for a big chunk of my early life. I went to college on the G.I. bill after I enlisted in the Marine Corps and served in Iraq.”
Regarding Israel and Iran, Vance claimed that Trump “delivered stability” to the world through “effective deterrence.”
“People were afraid of stepping out of line,” said Vance of the policy as it relates to foreign adversaries. “Iran has received over $100 billion in unfrozen assets thanks to the Kamala Harris Administration. They use it [that money] to buy weapons that they’re now launching against our allies and, God forbid, potentially launching against the United States as well.”
Vance heralded Trump’s classical “peace through strength” policies he exerted in the White House and, regarding support of a preemptive strike, Vance said that “it is up to Israel what they think they need to keep their country safe.” He reiterated American support for allies, adding that it is the “right approach” with Israel.
Walz rebutted that Trump’s policies pushed Iran further to nuclear capabilities, undoing the work of other countries who had “boxed” Iran’s nuclear program. Walz pointed to the recent Iranian attacks on Israel, stating that they were “repelled.”
Vance countered Walz’s claim of Iran being “as close to a nuclear weapon today as they have ever been,” pointing blame on Harris, who has been in office since January 2021. He added that, at forty years of age, he cannot recall a president other than Trump under whom no major conflict unfolded during his tenure.
Climate Change
The conversation then turned to Hurricane Helene and climate change, the latter for which moderator Norah O’Donnell said that 70% of Americans and 60% of Republicans under the age of forty-five support national steps to reduce the impact of climate change.
Vance said that people are “justifiably worried about all these crazy weather patterns.” He reiterated his and Trump’s support of clean air and water, but doubted that carbon emissions are driving “all the climate change.” He gave the benefit of the doubt, however, to that argument’s authenticity, saying that it reinforces the need for energy and manufacturing independence.
“What have Kamala Harris’ policies actually led to? More energy production in China, more manufacturing overseas, more doing business in some of the dirtiest parts of the entire world,” said Vance, adding that “Kamala Harris doesn’t believe her own rhetoric” on climate change.
Walz said that Trump has called climate change a “hoax” and defended the Inflation Reduction Act’s ability to create 200,000 jobs in the nascent electronic vehicle sector across the country. He also touted Minnesota as the site of the largest solar manufacturing plant in the country.
“My farmers know that climate change is real. They’ve seen 500-year droughts…floods, back to back,” said Walz, adding that Minnesota is producing more natural gas and oil “at any time than we ever have.”
Vance countered that if American money is spent on solar panels made in China, then “you’re going to make the economy dirtier.” He called for a cleaner environment with more energy production and a nuclear facility.
Walz rebutted that “the folks” [of Minnesota] “are not liberal folks…not folks that are ‘green.’” He also said that Minnesota’s top export “cannot be topsoil from erosion from these massive storms,” and that “mitigation” efforts are necessary, such as burying power lines.
Norah O’Donnell gave an on-air fact-check, stating that the “overwhelming consensus among scientists is that the earth’s climate is warming at an unprecedented rate.”
Immigration and the Southern Border
Immigration was the next topic, with Vance calling the current border situation a “historic immigration crisis” due to Harris’ desire to “undo” Trump’s border policies. He cited ninety-four President Biden (D-DE) executive orders suspending deportations, decriminalizing illegal immigrants, and increasing cases of asylum fraud. Vance also used a phrase heard often here in Suffolk County: “stop the bleeding,” namely when referring to record-level fentanyl overdoses across the country.
“Build the wall, re-implement deportations,” said Vance. Regarding 20 to 25 million illegal migrants in the country, Vance said his team would make finding and deporting criminal migrants their priority, among whom he says “about a million” have committed a crime in addition to crossing the border illegally. He elaborated that it should be made more difficult for illegal aliens to “undercut the wages of American workers.” Vance also invoked the 320,000 children, some of whom have been sex trafficked, he said, whose whereabouts are unknown under the current Department of Homeland Security.
“The real ‘family separation’ policy in this country is, unfortunately, Kamala Harris’ wide-open southern border,” said Vance, adding that the cartel utilizes children and/or vulnerable migrants as “drug mules.”
Walz immediately rejected “drug mule” claims, but failed to elaborate and instead pivoted towards fentanyl, adding that opioid deaths have decreased by the largest rate in just the past twelve months. He defended Harris’ prosecutorial record, stating she prosecuted “transnational gangs for human trafficking and drug interventions.” He also referenced a recent bipartisan immigration bill that congressional Republicans opposed, a move he said was due to Trump’s influence on their votes and his desire to have a “campaign issue.” He also said that only 2% of Trump’s proposed wall was built and that Mexico “didn’t pay a dime.”
Vance said that Harris bragged “for three years” about undoing Trump’s border policies, adding that she was successful in such efforts, resulting in “record” amounts of “fentanyl” coming into the country and a “record” number of illegal border crossings.
“And now that she’s running for President…she says that somehow she got religion and cared a lot about a piece of legislation,” said Vance of the congressional legislation.
Moderator Margaret Brennan pressed Governor Walz on deportations, sharing a CBS News poll that shows more than 50% of Americans support mass deportations.
Walz said the poll is a result of not wanting to “solve” the issue, but rather “demonize it.” Vance countered by saying that law enforcement needs to be empowered to do their jobs and that the remain-in-Mexico policy should be reinstituted. He also mentioned overwhelmed schools and hospitals across the country, notably in Springfield, Ohio, which is the site of apparent domestic pet-nappings at the hands of Haitian immigrants.
Walz said that border patrol and law enforcement supported the aforementioned immigration bill, adding that the bill would have provided funds for case adjudications.
“It should not take seven years for an asylum claim to be done. This bill gets it done in ninety days,” said Walz. He then quoted a Bible verse, Matthew 25:40: “To the least amongst us, you do unto me.
“I think that’s true of most Americans,” said Walz, suggesting a more altruistic approach to the issue.
Vance sparred with Brennan over a mid-debate fact-check over the legal statuses of Haitian migrants in Springfield. Vance said that the CBP One app can be used to apply for asylum or parole and be granted legal status “at the wave of Kamala Harris open-border wand.”
“That is not a person coming in, applying for a green card, and waiting for ten years. That is the facilitation of illegal immigration,” said Vance.
Brennan remarked: “Thank you, Senator, for describing the legal process.”
Walz attempted to interrupt by stating that the immigration laws described by Vance have been “on the books” since 1990, with Vance interjecting to refute the claim. The moderators cut the mics and pivoted to economy.
Economy
O’Donnell asked Walz to defend Harris’ economic plan, which includes billions in manufacturing and housing tax credits, as well as a renewed child tax credit. O’Donnell added that the plan was reviewed by the Wharton School of Economics, President Trump’s alma mater, and the school found the proposals would increase the national deficit by $1.2 trillion.
Walz defended Harris’ plan, stating that three million new houses under the plan would be coupled with down payment assistance “on the front end.” He then touted the Biden Administration’s price cap of $35 per dosage of insulin, stating that it was $800 before the law went into effect, but lamenting that insulin costs only $5 to make. Walz brought statistics from his state as well: a 12% increase in the housing stock in Minneapolis saw rent prices decrease by 4%; a $6,000 child tax credit that reduced the state’s childhood poverty by one-third. He said that the existing federal small business tax credit is $5,000, which he hopes to see Harris increase to $50,000. Walz lambasted Trump’s “tax cuts that predominantly went to the top caste,” which he says contributed to $8 trillion added to the deficit. He says Trump’s proposed 20% consumption or sales tax would be “destabilizing.”
“We’ll just ask the wealthiest to pay their fair share,” said Walz.
O’Donnell posed the same question to Senator Vance, with the Wharton School’s estimate of Trump’s plan imposing a $5.8 trillion increase to the national debt.
Vance opened by stating that Harris could have had a hand in implementing the plans she is now outlining, but never did. Instead, Vance says her policies have increased the cost of food by 25%, housing by about 60%, and made middle-class life “unaffordable” for most Americans.
“If Kamala Harris has such great plans for how to address middle class problems, then she ought to do them now, not when asking for a promotion, but in the job the American people gave her three and a half years ago,” said Vance, adding that the economists who attack Trump’s plans “have PhDs, but they don’t have common sense” or “wisdom.” Vance defended Trump’s economic policies, stating that they delivered the “highest take-home pay in a generation,” brought inflation down to 1.5%, along with international peace and security.
Walz said that Harris’ “day one” in Washington was Trump’s failure of the COVID-19 Pandemic, which led to the “collapse of our economy.” He pointed out the country was facing a manufacturing recession on the first day of the Biden-Harris Administration. Walz criticized Vance’s dismissal of the sideline economic counsel from Wharton.
“‘Economists can’t be trusted. Science can’t be trusted. National security folks can’t be trusted,’” Walz said, in a mockery of Vance’s positions. “Look, if you’re going to be president, you don’t have all the answers. Donald Trump believes he does. My pro tip of the day is this, if you need heart surgery, listen to the people at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, not Donald Trump.”
Walz also hit Trump on his tax records.
Vance delivered a rebuttal to Walz’s suggestion of “trusting the experts,” in that the “experts” said the U.S. would benefit from cheaper goods and a stronger middle-class from outsourcing manufacturing to China and Mexico.
“They were wrong about the idea that if we made America less self-reliant, less productive in our own nation, that it would somehow make us better off,” said Vance. “And for the first time in a generation, Donald Trump had the wisdom and the courage to say…we’re not doing it anymore.”
Walz agreed with most of Vance’s points, but criticized Trump’s trade policies, saying that his tariffs “created the largest trade deficit in American history with China.” He touted himself as a “union guy,” adding that his state has seen some of the issues often seen when states try to self-regulate their economies of scale, such as collective bargaining rights being “undercut” and “right-to-work” states making it “more difficult” to deal with the trade war.
Vance claimed a flaw in Walz’s logic, in that Walz says Trump “has to listen to the experts,” but that when Walz acknowledges that the experts “screwed up,” Walz backtracks by saying that Trump “didn’t do nearly as good of a job as the statistics show he did.” Walz called this a “gross generalization.”
Qualifications
She said that the vice president is often the “last voice the president hears before making consequential decisions.” With that, she asked Walz to clarify the timeline discrepancy on his 1989 Hong Kong visit.
Walz opened by painting a scene of bucolic Nebraska where he grew up and how he used the G.I. Bill, like Vance, to further his profession after military service. He discussed his first trip to China in 1989, followed by many other excursions with other sports teams he coached. He contends that he has “not been perfect” and a “knucklehead at times.” But he countered this by saying that the community who has recognized his faults kept him in Congress for twelve years, followed by two elections as governor. He then discussed his bipartisan record in Congress. Walz was pressed by Brennan for an answer on the discrepancy, to which Walz shortly replied: “No,” and that he “misspoke” on the timeline, but still asserted he was in Hong Kong and China during the season of protests.
Brennan then asked a tough question of Vance, namely of his view of Trump to be “unfit” for office in 2016 and that he disparaged Trump’s economic record during Trump’s first term.
Vance said that he’s always been “open” and has “disagreed” with Trump in the past. However, he said he has been “extremely open” about how he was “wrong about Donald Trump.” Vance said he was “wrong” because he believed some of the media’s stories on Trump’s record and that Trump delivered on many promises – rising wages, a working economy, and a secure southern border, in his words – during his time in office that Vance did not assume were possible of Trump. He also contends that some aspects of the Trump Administration “could have been done better in the first round,” but contended that a more bipartisan congress would have been more productive under Trump.
Vance also mentioned that, despite Walz’s criticisms of the trade war and its apparently disastrous effects on his home state, Biden and Harris have not suspended the Trump-era tariffs, calling it one of the most “pro-worker” parts of the Biden Administration.
Abortion
Walz dismissed Trump’s claims that ninth-month abortions are legal in Minnesota, but quickly pivoted to how Trump “brags” about appointing Supreme Court Justices responsible for the June 2022 overturning of Roe V. Wade. Walz discussed a Texas woman who was eighteen weeks pregnant and required an abortion due to a complication that, otherwise, would have led to sepsis and a possibility of infertility. He also mentioned a twelve-year-old in Kentucky who was raped and impregnated by her stepfather.
Walz said that Minnesota “restored Roe V. Wade,” and that “if you don’t know” the aforementioned women, “you soon will.” Walz said that “their” [Trump’s and Vance’s] Project 2025 is going to have a “registry of pregnancies” that he claims will make it “impossible to get contraception” and “eliminate access to infertility treatments.” Walz also does not approve of the “states’ rights” prerogative set by the reversal of Roe V. Wade, in that “this is a basic human right.”
“In Minnesota, we are ranked first in health care for a reason. We trust women. We trust doctors,” said Walz.
Vance said that his team “certainly” would not pursue a federal pregnancy monitoring agency and invoked an anecdote of his own, a woman who felt that if she hadn’t terminated her pregnancy, her life would have been “destroyed” because she was in an abusive relationship. Vance said he and Trump are “endeavoring” to make the Republican Party one of family values “in the fullest sense of the word,” pertaining to fertility treatments and affordability for families to grow.
“I think there’s so much that we can do on the public policy front just to give women more options,” said Vance, endorsing the states’ rights to determine their own policies. “I think it’s what makes the most sense in a very big, a very diverse, and let’s be honest, sometimes a very, very messy and divided country.”
Walz again mentioned Trump’s “false claim” of late-term abortions being legalized in Minnesota, but pivoted again to another anecdote, this time of Amber Thurmond. Amber attempted to receive an abortion in Georgia but had to travel a “very long distance” to North Carolina, where she died on that journey.
“There’s a very real chance that had Amber Thurman lived in Minnesota, she would be alive today,” said Walz, contending that he agrees “a lot” with Vance’s points on the issue, but that Trump does not agree with either of them.
Vance was asked about his previous support for a national abortion ban, which he denied and said that he was referring to some minimum national standard during his 2022 Senate campaign, mainly as it pertains to late-term abortions. Vance said that Democrats have taken a “very radical pro-abortion stance.”
Walz countered by saying that Democrats are not “pro-abortion,” but “pro-women” and “pro-freedom to make your own choice.”
The segment ended with Vance pressing Walz for an answer on the Minnesota law he signed that does not require doctors provide life-saving care to a baby who survives a botched late-term abortion, a practice Vance has called “barbaric.” Walz denied this, saying “that is not the way the law is written,” but failed to cite the language of the law to back this up and responded with “just mind your business on this.”
Walz added that other services for children are prioritized in Minnesota, such as meals, early childhood education, and healthcare, to which Vance responded that he had still not received an answer to the question on the state’s abortion law.
Closing Statements
In closing, Walz made his pitch to voters by advertising the “coalition Kamala Harris has built,” ranging from Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) to former Vice President Dick Cheney (R-WY). He countered the campaign of “fear” waged by Trump and Vance.
“Kamala Harris is bringing us a new way forward. She’s bringing us a politics of joy. She’s bringing real solutions for the middle class,” closed Walz.
Vance remarked on his adolescence in poverty, saying that whether families are “rich or poor” shouldn’t preclude them from heat in the winter, affording groceries, buying a house, and living in safe, drug-free neighborhoods – all aspects of American life he says has “gotten harder” under Harris.
“She’s been the Vice President for three and a half years. Day one was 1400 days ago. And her policies have made these problems worse.
“We need change. We need a new direction. We need a President who has already done this once before and did it well,” closed Vance.
